Interview in Chimayo, NM, sometime in the early 1990s. Lots of "OK", etc. by Pat removed.
Pat: ...er of 1995.
Rex: I'm Rex McGee.
Pat: And I'm Pat McGee.
Rex: We are discussing...
Pat: Family stories.
Rex: historical events.
Pat: I don't know very much about my grandfather. What did he do besides being a carpenter? I mean, he was retired by the time I grew up enough to know him.
Rex: That, uh. He started out in life as a farmer and blacksmith. In World War I, he tried to enlist, and of course the Sargent that was enlisting knew who he was and said, "You're a blacksmith; we need you here at home, and not in the Service."
Pat: Right. I didn't know they did that.
Rex: Well, that was World War I.
Pat: OK, what other occupations were there that they ...
Rex: I have no idea. But, uh...
Pat: Blacksmith is one of them.
Rex: Dad did a bunch ... a lot of bumming around in his youth. That he went to the St. Louis Worlds Fair in 1904. Was he borned in '84, or '80?
Pat: I'd have to get Darcy's book out and look.
Rex: 'Cause I always thought he was born in '80 and Mother was born in '90. But her book says he was born in '84. That would have made him 20 years old. And he worked as a roughneck there on the fairgrounds. So ...
Pat: I wonder where he learned to be a blacksmith. Was that something ...
Rex: Naw, Grandfather ... Granddaddy McGee was a blacksmith.
Pat: Oh. This is Abner, isn't it.
Rex: Yeah. So, it just came natural to him.
Pat: He grew up around it.
Rex: In those days, the blacksmith was also the automotive mechanic. If it didn't run, he could fix it. And, uh, in 1920, I think it was '21, he moved to Dallas. Carl was gonna teach him to be a meatcutter. Know the difference between a meatcutter and a butcher?
Pat: Nope.
Rex: Butcher is the one that kills the animal. Meatcutter is the one at the market that sells you the meat. Uncle Carl was a meatcutter.
Pat: Yeah. That distinction has kinda vanished now-a-days. Now we call the person in the market the butcher.
Rex: And, as Dad always said, he'd like to have the money, but Uncle Carl sold his thumb for him. You've seen the cartoon. Woman out here in front with her thumb under and the butcher puttin' his thumb on the... top of the scale. But, he had fallen arches, and there was times that he could not even stand.
Pat: This is Reuben, not Carl.
Rex: Yeah. But he was known as Otis.
Pat: OK, Otis. I keep forgetting that.
Rex: And, uh... So he went into the carpentry business.
Pat: Yeah, I guess you move around a lot more there. You're walking instead of standing.
Rex: So, uh, he stayed with that until he got down to where he couldn't. He went to Texarkana up to Red River Arsenal when they built it. Then went up to ... Ardmore? Naw. What's the one over there north of (?) (sounds like "old virginia"). It's not Lawton. But, he worked on that airfield for a while. Then went to California, then went up to Seattle during the war, working on (?) bases.
Pat: Putting up new buildings, repairing old build... I guess they probably didn't repair much...
Rex: Putting up new ones. So, he was, shall we say, in defense work during the war. Not as contractor but as labor. Well, in 1940, he had that tumor on the brain. Dr. (? sounds like Zarevna) operated on him.
Pat: What was his name?
Rex: Eureka(?).
Pat: Eureka(?). That's an interesting name. I hadn't heard that before.
Rex: That ... it was real strange. Within a year after that operation, Dr. Eureka died of a tumor on the brain.
Pat: Oh. Right. And they expected Otis to die of it. And he lived for ...
Rex: He lived for ...
Pat: Thirty years?
Rex: Naw, twenty years. Didn't he die in '59?
Pat: That's within a couple of years. I was thinking '60, but ...
Rex: Naw, that, uh... He was supposed to be in the hospital for six months and recuperating at home for another six months. Well, at the end of the third week, the doctor came in to check him and couldn't find him. He was out visiting other wards. Doctor says, if you're well enough to get out and run around and visit the other wards, you're well enough to go home. Git. So, they kicked him out of the hospital.
Pat: He must have gone to work fairly shortly after that.
Rex: Yeah, he was go to work in a very few months, three to six months, he'd be back at work. And, uh, Hodgkins disease incapacitated him. About '54, somewhere along in there. He did very little work after that.
Pat: Yeah, I basically remember him being at home. But then we only went over there on weekends, so...
Rex: He was home. I don't think he ever really went back to work after the Hodgkins disease hit him.
Pat: I always thought that his brain operation and Hodgkins disease were the same thing. I realized a while back, no, this is something different.
Rex: Hodgkins disease is cancer of the lymph glands. The brain operation was caused by bumping his head in an automobile accident. That... he tried to run a Model T under a gasoline truck, and it didn't quite fit. So... he turned it over on it's side and spun it around several times and he went out through the top. That was back when they didn't have metal tops, they had wood and canvas.
Pat: And they didn't have seat belts.
Rex: Naw, wood and oil cloth. So, when he bumped his head going out.
Pat: When was that?
Rex: The accident? ... I want to say, '36.
Pat: OK, so it was ...
Rex: It was after ... He worked at the Texas Centennial, fairgrounds...
Pat: Would have been '36.
Rex: ... a long time before the fair opened, and then it opened about the first week of June.
(10:00) {Wikipedia says 6 June 1936.)
And he worked on for several weeks. But in '32, '31 and '32 he was blacksmithing up at the Ford plant there on East Grand.
Pat: Ah, that's right, there used to be a Ford plant.
Rex: Yeah, and, uh, when they, uh, got through, uh, remodeling for the V8, they did away with the blacksmith shop. So, that put him out of a job there. Then he went back to carpentry. He also, in thirty... I think it was '35, helped Mr. Biggle put the seats in the stadium there at the racetrack in Fair Park.
Pat: This is long before Cotton Field.
Rex: The Cotton Bowl
Pat: The Cotton Bowl, yeah.
Rex: Well, the old stadium sat back there facing the back of the fairgrounds; it's still there. Well, that was a horse-racing track. And, of course, horse racing didn't last a full season until they voted it out. Arlington Downs, there in Arlington. Fairgrounds at Fair Park both had racetracks.
Pat: Where was Arlington Downs? Did they tear it down?
Rex: Yeah. You know where the ... what's the ... Windam (?) Masons (?).
Pat: Gold Star? Eastern Star?
Rex: Eastern Star. You know where the Eastern Star home is there in Arlington.
Pat: I've seen it; I've driven by it.
Rex: Well, it was east of it.
Pat: OK, back toward Dallas.
Rex: It would be in what was now Grand Prairie, except that Grand Prairie wasn't there ... wasn't out that far at that time. So... He did some odd occupations. But you'd still, I would say ...(?) construction.
Pat: Sounds like just building things.
Rex: Yeah. That's about all I can remember of it. Is there anything ... that you need to ask about?
Pat: I dunno. Something doesn't quite make sense, though, is... from what we know... from what a lot of doctors think now, brain tumors don't ... they usually grow... they're there for a long time before you can see 'em. And I'm wondering whether his tumor was really there before that auto accident.
Rex: Who knows? Well, that was four years. How long do you want it to grow?
Pat: Ten.
Rex: So, they caught it early. That's the reason he survived. They didn't catch (Enrico's ???) in time, so that's the reason he ... didn't survive. Oh, Dad saw the first Texas-OU football game. That Granddaddy was farming a farm there at Normam that was adjacent to the football field. They did not have bleachers at the football field. All they had was standing room on the sidelines. That was sometime between 1900 and 1902 - 4. {Wikipedia says 1900.} And then ... 'cause ... I'm trying to think if the Land Rush was '07, is I think when Uncle Will and Granddaddy both ... Neither one of them made the land rush. That they bought land from the men who did make the land rush. There was a lot of roughnecks that made the land rush and went and filed a claim.
Pat: That didn't stay... didn't plan on staying around. What was it, seven years you had to farm it?
Rex: I have no idea. But... there was a lot of people that didn't live through the land rush. 'Cause somebody else wanted the land that they had ... were staking. So they kinda met with...
Pat: An acute case of lead poisoning.
Rex: So.... both Granddaddy and Uncle Will thought it best to pay a little money. I had no idea what they paid for it , but by today's standards it would have been peanuts.
Pat: So, what happened to that land? How long did he keep it?
Rex: Granddaddy? When he died in '36, '34, somewhere up in there, he was still living on it. Uncle Will was still living on his when Aunt Rose died. They finally talked him into going into a nursing home. But (?) he was 95 or so, that he went to live with Frank there in Irving, for a very short time. Naw, Granddaddy McGee had a blacksmith shop there on the land. I used to get out there and fire the furnace... forge. Heat metal. Hammer it out. Play with it. Never did anything constructive but sure did do a lot of pounding on metal. Never did learn to forge weld. That's where you take two pieces of metal and heat them and beat 'em together. They fuse and make one. That was mainly what Daddy did at the Ford plant, was forge welding.
Pat: What did they make that way? The bodies...
(18:00)
Rex: Naw, the building. All that track and stuff.
Pat: OK, so he wasn't working on the cars, he was working on the stuff that made the cars. OK, that makes a little more sense.
Rex: Naw, he wasn't... he was preparing tools and things like that. But mainly it was construction of the building. So, instead of being a carpenter, he was a blacksmith.
Pat: Right. But he was still building buildings instead of cars.
Rex: He built buildings. So, that clarifies that. That's why he was working at the Ford plant.
Pat: Any why they had a blacksmith shop. So, after they retooled for the V8, why did they not need a blacksmith shop anymore?
Rex: The building was complete. So, therefore ... Everything was shipped in ready to assemble.
Pat: How long did that plant last? I don't remember it at all.
Rex: Up into the '50s. But not very far into. That, uh... It didn't produce that many cars, it was that small. It outlived its usefulness, let's put it. I think St. Louis took over from several of the small plants.
Pat: That's a ways away.
Rex: But so what?
Pat: A day by railroad, something like that?
Rex: Yeah. But it's that much closer to where they manufacture the parts. You can ship a car just as easy as you can ship parts. I guess we've got most of what I can remember about Granddaddy. Or, your granddaddy, I should say. My Granddaddy, I don't know that much about him. That, uh. Was he born in Tennessee, and moved to Texas?
Pat: I think he was the one.
Rex: And then... They moved to Greenville, I think, first. A sign across the street, with "The blackest land and the whitest people." Little sign down in the corner says, "Nigger, don't let the sun set on you here."
Pat: I remember some other stories about people that moved from Tennessee. The ones that got to the Louisiana-Texas border. The ones that could read, saw the sign that said, "This is Texas" and they stayed ... and increased the average IQ in both states.
Rex: Naw, that, uh. They must have moved to Mansfield first.
Pat: OK, that's south of Ft. Worth?
Rex: Yeah. 'Cause Dad talked about 'em loading up the cotton in the wagon and going up to Kits Springs (??) and camping overnight. Going into Dallas the next day and selling the cotton and buying the staples, going back to Kits Springs and camping, and they'd go back home the third night. And we're talking, 50 miles. Three day trip.
Pat: Yeah, wagon and two horses doesn't move that fast.
Rex: You know when grandmother McGee left grandfather? Granddaddy?
Pat: I think Darcy has it written down.
Rex: 'Cause there was a lot of debate on whether Carl is legitimate or not. When he was (little?). 'Cause everybody had him borned after grandmother McGee moved to Dallas. 'Cause she opened up one of the first rooming houses in Dallas.
Pat: They didn't have them before then? I thought the rooming house was World War One.
Rex: We're talking 1900. (?) They had hotels, but as far as rooming houses, where you had a lot of people living in the same house. ... It got to be where most of her clients were women ... and she'd become the madam.
Pat: OK, one of the things that Darcy wants me to make sure I get down on tape is the story of you, her, and the parking ticket.
Rex: (laughs) Oh! That, uh... I had that '36 Chevrolet coupe pickup. So it was either thirty ... late '37 or early '38. That ... she was going down to (noise?) to pick up her food because they ... at that time they gave them food rather than food stamps or ... . And I parked in this loading zone. Well, I had a truck with a truck license on it. I'd (?) (?) for ten minutes ... for fifteen minutes. So, we came back out and here it was with a ticket on it. Well, she told me to head for City Hall. So, would you believe I illegally parked at City Hall. She went in and talked to, I want to say Chief Hansen, I'm not sure that that's the man's name, but that's what I think it was. And she came back out, and the ticket had been fixed. 'Cause, it seems that he was a good customer of hers back in the old days. So, now...
Pat: So, where were ... There were several rooming houses, weren't there? Did she own the house?
Rex: Naw, she just rented it. As far as I know, she never owned any property in Dallas.
Pat: OK, so she'd rent the house and then rent out rooms.
Rex: She started out on Ervay at Campden??? Which is now (unintelligible). But it was on the outskirts of the town. But then ... I can't remember anything earlier than McKinney Avenue, between Harwood and Pearl. That there's ... a bunch of two-story buildings. The bottom story was retail, the top story was rooming houses. That, uh... 'cause I don't remember her living on Ackard. That's North Ackard, which was between Ross and Harwood ... McKinney. That ... Dad decided to go to Amarillo one year for something, find a job or something. Eloise talked about all the girls making a big to-do over me, I was such a cute little boy. That's when Mother lived in the back rooms of the house and didn't come out the front door at all. We were there several months. But, ah, all I can remember is Dad pointing out the house to me.
Pat: Is it still around?
Rex: As far as I know, it's still there.
Pat: Do you remember the number?
Rex: Now, I think all of the buildings there on McKinney have been torn down. That, one of the bakeries here ... It's been too long since I've been in that area. I don't have any idea what's ... But when the bakery was still there, in the old building that they've occupied since year one.
Pat: Now, we've got some pictures of rooming houses. We may be able to find it again if we kind-of know what area to look in.
Rex: I'm gonna say it's about half-way between McKinney and Ross. And I think I'm right about it being on Ackard.
{If true, then it's gone now. The Woodall Rogers Freeway went through there and that whole area has been redeveloped into businesses.}
Rex: I'd have to go back. I don't think a map would help, but it might.
Pat: Probably just driving around in the area.
Rex: 'Cause, when I carried the Dallas News, I carried the route that ... My route was on one side of the street and her house would have been on the other side. That was after she'd already left there and moved up to ... corner ... In fact, she'd already moved into the nursing home, which wasn't a nursing home, it was another rooming house that catered to old people.
Pat: So, she didn't run that rooming house, she was just...
Rex: Naw, she was just in it. And that was a ... across from (unintelligible, 2 syllables, first syllable sounds like "ki") where the rooming houses was, it was an old house. Then she moved into an old house in Oak Cliff somewhere. I never did visit her out there. 'Cause Mother didn't have that much to do with her. And Dad would go out there occasionally by himself. But not very often.
Pat: Well, obviously, even though he had to go to Amarillo to look for job, things started going better a few years
(31:16) end of tape